The points sacrificing system at LlamaLAN XIII

[Golem]

In the heat of battle, you must decide: Will you make sacrifices to leave no one behind? Will you forge alliances and spurn all others? Or, will you fight only for your own survival and risk isolating yourself, receiving no aid when you need it most?

There are FOUR big tournaments. You are one of FOUR big teams. After each of the first three tournaments are complete and the running total scores are announced, every team will have the option of donating up to 50% of their current score to one other team. Team leaders can confer with their team, but will have just five minutes to tell the LAN admin (via forum PM only) of the decision. Anyone who fails to act quickly will lose the chance to donate any points at all.

Why do this? At the end of ALL big tournaments, after the final scores are announced, the LAN admin will reveal which teams made the most sacrifices for the survival of their peers.

• The most generous team will be awarded bonus points worth up to 50% of the top team's score.
• The second most generous team will be awarded bonus points worth up to 30% of the top team's score.
• The third most generous team will be awarded bonus points worth up to 15% of the top team's score.
• If a team never made any sacrifices, they receive no bonus points!

Until the end, the admin will not reveal who sacrificed what nor who benefitted from each decision - only the outcomes will be announced! Skill alone may not decide the greatest surviors. The result may well depend on the sacrifices YOU make during the struggle!

[YaZoR]

_My_ points'es!!! _My_ Precious'es!!!!

[Haste]

Wait, so your saying that if a team donates 50% of their points, and they are in first place for donates, they get 50% back?

However what happends if......let me use an exmaple


Green donate 50% of their points to yellow

Yellow are now in the lead. However Green is last. At the end Green get first place on donates, and get 50% back, However green is still going to be in 2nd becuase yellow have their full points, plus the points that green gave them......... So Yellow get the prizes, even though you have them points.........lose lose situation?

[Golem]

Not quite.

Remember that the final bonus is awarded at the end of all tournaments, at the end of the LAN proceedings, essentially. Teams can donate up to 50% of their current score. The top bonus is 50% of the top team's score at the end. Remember that teams can only sacrifice points at the end of the first three tournaments, not after the fourth.

In your scenario, in order for your math to work, Green would have to be on something like 10 and yellow on 6. It looks like you've assumed:

End of tourny 1: No points given away
End of tourny 2: No points given away
End of tourny 3: Green have 10, Yellow have 6. Green give 5 to Yellow. Now, Green are on 5 and Yellow are on 11. (If no one else makes a sacrifice, Green stand to gain at least another 5 points.)

It would be strategic madness to donate the full 5 possible points to yellow team at this stage, for the very reason you stated. However, there is of course still one more tournament to be played even after this point and the situation can still change.

Moral of the story: Just because you CAN give up to 50%, doesn't mean you should. If no one else had donated at all until this point, Green could get away with giving just a single point to yellow and come out on tops - assuming no one else will donate any points at the same time of course...

End of tourny 1: No points given away
End of tourny 2: No points given away
End of tourny 3: Green have 10, Yellow have 6. Green give 1 to Yellow. Now, Green are on 9 and Yellow are on 7. (If no one else makes a sacrifice, Green stand to gain at least another 4 points.)

Green could also just give nothing away and hope for the best...

[Haste]

ok, well lemme put this into my head for a second

* few seconds silence*

So if green donate 1 point everyround, that counts as 10 percent each round? meaning at the end they have donated 3 points to yellow.

And yellow have donated exactly the same BACK to green, wtf hapends then ? XD

Wait, how many points do u get for a win / loss? and how many points do you have before the last round maximum and minimum?

damn i love and hate number crunching at the exact same time

[Golem]

Ah let's not over complicate this. The points a team gives after each tournament do not tally up to some percentage or other.

• The MAX you can give after tournaments 1, 2 and 3 is 50% of your CURRENT TOTAL. If after T1 red have 4 points, they can give up to 2 away at that time. If after T2 they have 6 points, they can give up to 3 pts at that time.
• If two teams give each other the same number of points, then not much changes except the total number of points they have each donated, a total which matters only at the end of the LAN.
• The bonus only comes after all four tournaments are complete. The bonus is awarded based on each team's total value of the points donated during the whole LAN.

Each team will win the following for each tournament :

1st place: 4 pts
2nd place: 3 pts
3rd place: 2 pts
4th place: 1 pt

[Haste]

ok right, i've got the number down, i understand the scarficing now.


However why the hell would you want to scarfice points.


exmaple begin!

Green have 14 points = 2 first place wins, 2 second place win
yellow have 7 points = got 0 first place wins 3 third and 1 last
blue have 7 points = 1 last 1 first 1 third

yellow and blue decide to ally, so blue gives 50% to yellow

so now

Green have 14
yellow have 10
blue have 4 ( seven halfed then rounded up?)

then blue get the biggest bonus for donates, which ends in

Green have 14
yellow have 10
blue have 7


wtf...........no winners?? danm.......doesnt that mean no motive for donating?

sorry for being such a shit with this

XD

~Rhys

[Golem]

ok right, i've got the number down, i understand the scarficing now.

You've almost understood.

First of all, in your scenario, blue would actually receive a further seven points. You've forgotten that the most sacrificing team wins 50% of the top team's final score. So Blue would end up with 11, not 7.

But more importantly, you've also forgotten that there's no sacrificing after event number four, so to revise your figures, pretending we're at the end of the third event:
Green are on 11 after two first place wins and one second place win.
Yellow are on 5 after two third place wins and one last.
Blue are on 7 after one first, one second and one last.

If the bonus were to be awarded at this point, Blue would end up only 2 points behind Green. However, no bonusses are given at this point because we still have the last event to play. If Blue win the last event, Blue team win the LAN.

EDIT: In fact if Blue perform better than Green in any way, even if Blue don't get first place in the final tournament, they win the LAN at best, and at worst come joint first with Green!

I should mention that if a team does very well consistently it will still be hard to beat them in the final tally. That's by design; we don't want to make it too easy to overcome a team that has played well and deserves to emerge the winner. However, overcoming such a team via the sacrificing bonus isn't impossible. We'd rather people figure out their own strategy to this, so I'll restrain myself and just mention one thing that your number crunching is highlighting: Leaving it all until the last chance to give away, and always giving away 50% of what you have, while it can work (as shown above), it is not necessarily the best way to play this game.

[Haste]

Ok got it now, i hope i have helped other peopel in understanding, not just being an annoying shit XD


Thanks Golem, you the best!!!!


-_-


-Rhys

Also, upgrading so look at other post about 4 mins after i click submit